Cadenzas

[kroket]

[quote="Timtin"]These are the Reinecke cadenzas to Mozart's 4th. Piano Concerto.
Please note that they make ideal 'inserts' into the 2H transcriptions
he made of WAM's pcs, which were published cadenza-less (if there
is such a word).

Thank you for all the cadenzas you made available, Timtin. Indeed they are a valuable addition.
Greetings, kroket

[Timtin]

Dear Krotek, your mention of 1784 in the 2H thread is indeed correct.
K449, K450, K451, K453, K456, and K459.
What an amazing line-up for that year!
There's a beautiful file on IMSLP from Harvard of Mozart's Piano Concerto No5
arranged for 2H, but by whom?
http://imslp.org/wiki/Piano_Concerto_No ... Amadeus%29
These are Reinecke's alternatives to the cadenzas written by Mozart himself
for that work:-

Reinecke Cadenza to Mozart's Piano Concerto K175 1st. Movt. Op87 No28.pdf

Reinecke Cadenza to Mozart's Piano Concerto K175 2nd. Movt. Op87 No29.pdf

Reinecke Cadenza to Mozart's Piano Concerto K175 3rd. Movt. Op 87 No30.pdf

[kroket]

There's a beautiful file on IMSLP from Harvard of Mozart's Piano Concerto No5
arranged for 2H, but by whom?

Thanks again for more Reinecke cadenzas, Timtin. The concerto KV 175 on IMLSP from Harvard is indeed a beautiful score. According to the Köchel edition this is the "Erstausgabe" (as a 2H transcription, and published in Paris) from 1785 and arranged by Charles-Georges Boyer. As third movement it has the Rondo KV 382!
Greetings, kroket

[Timtin]

Thank you Kroket for letting me know the arranger's name.
Perhaps performances of K175 should sometimes include both its
original finale and K382, as with Beethoven's Op130 and Op133.

[Emil Borisovich Sernov]

post deleted

[alfor]

Konstantin Sorokin
Cadenzas to Beethoven's Piano Concerto No.4, Op.58

Sorokin K - Cadenza to Beethoven's Piano Concerto No.4.pdf

(nms)

Thank you for a well-written cadenza, mainly using the original themes of the mvt.

Imho B.'s original cadenzas are the best he ever wrote and can hardly be surpassed by „foreign“ cadenzas. Nevertheless there do exist dozens of „foreign“ cadenzas for this Concerto. One reason might be that the original cadenzas simple had been totally unknown and not available in print for many decades.

[fleubis]

...... One reason might be that the original cadenzas simple had been totally unknown and not available in print for many decades.

I never knew that and had always assumed the cadenzas were published with the concertos. Very interesting indeed. Hope someday to encounter a history of the publication of B's works.

[HullandHellandHalifax]

...... One reason might be that the original cadenzas simple had been totally unknown and not available in print for many decades.

I never knew that and had always assumed the cadenzas were published with the concertos. Very interesting indeed. Hope someday to encounter a history of the publication of B's works.

I don't have enough info to say that alfor is right or wrong though my gut reaction based on what I do know is that that is not the case. I have enough early copies of Concerti arranged for solo piano, usually by the composer and without exception they include the cadenzas, if there was no cadenza then the composer always expected the performer to provide their own. What we do know is that in those days the pianists were composers and if they played works by other composers they always interfered with them, changing whole passages, adding cadenzas etc. Obviously a popular Concerto like the Beethoven 4 would attract other performers who would improvise or compose cadenzas for themselves to play and then have published, for a nice little bit of income. Liszt is known to have said that when he or his pupils played the late masterpieces by Beethoven he would not tolerate deviation from the printed score. That was the exception to the general rule that the printed notes were most definitely not sacrosanct.
It is possible of course that in later editions of Concerti (from any composer) from different publishing houses, that they omitted cadenzas in the hope that they would sell cadenzas provided by their in-house composers, or thought that the original was not flashy enough.
regards
Brian

[alfor]

You are right that it would be very interesting to find out when and in which combination the cadenzas had originally been published (I will try some research here: http://www.beethoven-haus-bonn.de/sixcm ... _archiv_de).

There is some evidence that I am wrong and Hulland is correct - I just inspected my copy of the excellent (Franz) Kullak edition of the Concerto No. 1 (first published in 1881; Edition Steingräber Nr. 127) and it in fact includes the original cadenzas!

Breitkopf issued a volume with the complete Piano Concerto Cadenzas: Edition Breitkopf Nr. 4055.

[Timtin]

Adding to the Mozart/Reinecke set of cadenzas, these two
aren't for piano solo, and are somewhat are overshadowed
by the master's originals, not surprisingly! Having said that,
these seem quite long, elaborate and interesting alternatives.

Reinecke Cadenza to Mozart's 2-Piano Concerto K365 1st. Movt. Op87 No12.pdf

Reinecke Cadenza to Mozart's 2-Piano Concerto K365 3rd. Movt. Op87 No13.pdf