Frédéric Chopin

[fleubis]

For me, Kreutzer seems to use a lot of 4th fingers, which panics me. The 'modification' of the ending sweep of the 4th Ballade is so Horowitzian. I immediately recall the image of the Maestro playing the final chromatic of the 1st Scherzo in alternate octaves.

i've noticed that usage of the 4th finger also! Even my small hands seem to like that. You can imagine my total surprise at his octave suggestions at the end of the 4th ballad.

[alfor]

...summit (sommet; szczyt***)...

alfor scan

Chopin Polonaise-Fantaisie op.61 ed. Kreutzer.pdf

***somehow the Polish people lost most of their vowels (samogłoski*)...
*far too many...

[fleubis]

The Polonaise-Fantasy! My favorite polonaise, as this one gives us the greatest opportunity for creative expression, IMHO. Mr. Kreutzer has again given us an opportunity (!) for octaves ala Horowitz (for which I am ambivalent) . I find myself liking the clarity of the brackets than the more traditional phrase markings and find it adds space to the score. Now, did everyone catch his use of the comma (,) in this score? I don't recall seeing it before, but the intent is obvious. There seems to be me much more frequent pedaling here than in the other editions I have at hand. Alas I do not have the Cortot edition of the polonaises to compare it to, but clearly this seems to alter the character from what I'm used to hearing (and playing) a bit. Kreutzer does present us with a clear vision of how to play this piece as a coherent whole. (I hate to think of how many absolutely horrible performances of this polonaise I've heard in my life.)

Thank you, Alfred.

[alfor]

You are welcome, dear fleubis!

Do you want me to post the Cortot edition of the Polonaise-Fantaisie?
(French text only - to my knowledge there is no English version)

[alfor]

...tiny little sonata...

modest alfor scan

Chopin Sonata op.58 ed. Kreutzer.pdf

[alfor]

There is a certain (lost) tradition of playing the first part of the Scherzo,
most clearly witnessed by d'Albert and Klindworth:

Chopin op.58 Scherzo ed. d'Albert, Klindw.pdf

[fleubis]

You are welcome, dear fleubis!

Do you want me to post the Cortot edition of the Polonaise-Fantaisie?
(French text only - to my knowledge there is no English version)

That would be wonderful, Alfred. While I don't read French, I'm sure to find something useful in the pedaling and fingering.

[fleubis]

...tiny little sonata...

modest alfor scan

Chopin Sonata op.58 ed. Kreutzer.pdf

A very fine edition of this sonata. Kreutzer gives us rather interesting finger alternatives. For instance, at the top of page 28, first measure, one option has us sliding the fifth finger down from the D flat to the C, and has me scratching my head on this one. But the passage work is so well fingered that yet again I need to rework my own fingering of how I've been playing it all these years.

Very welcome, Alfred.

[fleubis]

There is a certain (lost) tradition of playing the first part of the Scherzo,
most clearly witnessed by d'Albert and Klindworth:

Chopin op.58 Scherzo ed. d'Albert, Klindw.pdf

Very interesting indeed. I presume the first page is d'Albert. It is quite surprising to see the left hand jump up and take a note here and there. Certainly does relieve the tension.

[alfor]

There is a certain (lost) tradition of playing the first part of the Scherzo,
most clearly witnessed by d'Albert and Klindworth:

Chopin op.58 Scherzo ed. d'Albert, Klindw.pdf

Very interesting indeed. I presume the first page is d'Albert. It is quite surprising to see the left hand jump up and take a note here and there. Certainly does relieve the tension.

imho the difference is as follows (no technical reasons at all!):

usual reading:
right hand: no specific „melody“ but rather an arabesque, mainly consisting of simple broken triads.
left hand: dito; only fundamental harmonies with simple suspended notes.

d'Albert, Klindworth:
the same, but with short phrases of „melodic value“, i.e.:
:b flat, a flat, g:
b flat, g, e flat
bar 17: d, c, b flat
and so on

or simply spoken:
in the respective bars the 3rd note of the right hand is prolonged and given „melodic value“
as the first note of a three-note-phrase