Fastest piece of piano music
-
- Member
- Posts: 94
- Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:38 am
- Instruments played, if any: Piano
- Music Scores: No
- Location: London UK
- Contact:
Re: Fastest piece of piano music
Fred’s research raises some interesting points. The direction at the outset of Le Festin d'Esope is “Allegretto senza licenza quantunque (126 = ♪)”. So you set the metronome and start playing, keeping in absolutely strict time regardless of the piece’s considerable difficulties. When you get to variation 17, you play the first bar, stop, close the book, turn off the metronome and go into the kitchen for a stiff drink.
Gibbons and Ponti slow down to ♪ = 115 which, according to Alkan’s instruction, is unacceptable. Lewnthal and Ringeissen have the temerity to slow to ♪ = 100. The fact is that only Hamelin can play these two variations at the correct speed – as matter of fact he plays them even quicker here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSxbao_Chq0 – 27 seconds by my reckoning, or 1130 notes per minute (but rather more messily than on the CD).
So this appears to address a particular human limitation. Maybe one could execute a trill at a higher speed, or even the notes E-F#-G#-A#-B up and down ad nauseam, but the fact remains that there is a limit as to how fast one can play.
As a parting shot, maybe Alkan knew all along that nobody would be able to play these two variations at the required speed. Could he?
Gibbons and Ponti slow down to ♪ = 115 which, according to Alkan’s instruction, is unacceptable. Lewnthal and Ringeissen have the temerity to slow to ♪ = 100. The fact is that only Hamelin can play these two variations at the correct speed – as matter of fact he plays them even quicker here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSxbao_Chq0 – 27 seconds by my reckoning, or 1130 notes per minute (but rather more messily than on the CD).
So this appears to address a particular human limitation. Maybe one could execute a trill at a higher speed, or even the notes E-F#-G#-A#-B up and down ad nauseam, but the fact remains that there is a limit as to how fast one can play.
As a parting shot, maybe Alkan knew all along that nobody would be able to play these two variations at the required speed. Could he?
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 822
- Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:19 pm
- Instruments played, if any: piano organ harmonium
- Music Scores: Yes
- Location: Zeist, The Netherlands
Re: Fastest piece of piano music
I think the answer to the last two words is an emphatic yes, simply because we all know what his contempories thought of his playing, Liszt used to fear Alkans presence in the audience according to what I have read, plus and this is the one factor not mentioned up to now is that the action of the pianos in those days was considerably lighter and I think shallower than the modern monsters pianists are virtually forced to break their fingers on and that of course increases the possibility of playing such music up to speed, especially as the passages in question for the right hand fall well under the fingers, the leaps in the left hand are another matter!!!timgill wrote:Fred’s research raises some interesting points. The direction at the outset of Le Festin d'Esope is “Allegretto senza licenza quantunque (126 = ♪)”. So you set the metronome and start playing, keeping in absolutely strict time regardless of the piece’s considerable difficulties. When you get to variation 17, you play the first bar, stop, close the book, turn off the metronome and go into the kitchen for a stiff drink.
Gibbons and Ponti slow down to ♪ = 115 which, according to Alkan’s instruction, is unacceptable. Lewnthal and Ringeissen have the temerity to slow to ♪ = 100. The fact is that only Hamelin can play these two variations at the correct speed – as matter of fact he plays them even quicker here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSxbao_Chq0 – 27 seconds by my reckoning, or 1130 notes per minute (but rather more messily than on the CD).
So this appears to address a particular human limitation. Maybe one could execute a trill at a higher speed, or even the notes E-F#-G#-A#-B up and down ad nauseam, but the fact remains that there is a limit as to how fast one can play.
As a parting shot, maybe Alkan knew all along that nobody would be able to play these two variations at the required speed. Could he?
regards
Brian
hehe! how about another composing competition for a Toccata or etude which pushes the speed question to its ultimate, how fast can the human hand play on modern pianos (trills excepted of course), how many subdivisions of the beat can be squeezed into 3 or 4 minutes for example?
- fredbucket
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2045
- Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:51 am
- Instruments played, if any: Piano, Harpsichord, Organ, Piano Accordian, Button Accordian, Anglo and Duet Concertinas, Oboe, Cor Anglais, 6 & 12 string guitars, 5-string banjo.
- Music Scores: Yes
- Location: Sydney, Australia
Re: Fastest piece of piano music
Alkan is no stranger to what might be considered excessive speeds. Le Chemin de Fer, op.27, is specified as 896 semiquavers per minute, and Fa from Op.38b a whopping 1296 notes per minute I don't know anything faster than this.timgill wrote:As a parting shot, maybe Alkan knew all along that nobody would be able to play these two variations at the required speed. Could he?
It is interesting that George Beck, in his 1971 edition of Alkan's works, states that the MM markings are invariably too fast and not to be taken literally, but by the same token the music loses something if not played at something approaching what Alkan specifies. The limitations are not only the pianist but also the clarity and resonance of the piano.
Regards
Fred
-
- Member
- Posts: 94
- Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:38 am
- Instruments played, if any: Piano
- Music Scores: No
- Location: London UK
- Contact:
Re: Fastest piece of piano music
Fred's right. Fa is even fa-ster than Le Festin.
-
- Pianodeity
- Posts: 2003
- Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:36 pm
- Instruments played, if any: Piano40
- Music Scores: Yes
- Contact:
Re: Fastest piece of piano music
Playing too fast is like eating too fast or copulating too fast - ultimately not very satisfying.
- fredbucket
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2045
- Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:51 am
- Instruments played, if any: Piano, Harpsichord, Organ, Piano Accordian, Button Accordian, Anglo and Duet Concertinas, Oboe, Cor Anglais, 6 & 12 string guitars, 5-string banjo.
- Music Scores: Yes
- Location: Sydney, Australia
Re: Fastest piece of piano music
Oh, I don't know - ever watched Meerkat Manor?Timtin wrote:Playing too fast is like eating too fast or copulating too fast - ultimately not very satisfying.
Regards
Fred
- fredbucket
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2045
- Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:51 am
- Instruments played, if any: Piano, Harpsichord, Organ, Piano Accordian, Button Accordian, Anglo and Duet Concertinas, Oboe, Cor Anglais, 6 & 12 string guitars, 5-string banjo.
- Music Scores: Yes
- Location: Sydney, Australia
Re: Fastest piece of piano music
Yes, but it's a bit fa-fetched to expect anyone to play it at that speed, don't you think?timgill wrote:Fred's right. Fa is even fa-ster than Le Festin.
Regards
Fa
- Dannen
- Member
- Posts: 83
- Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:36 pm
- Instruments played, if any: Piano
- Music Scores: Yes
- Location: dannen@earthlink.net
Re: Fastest piece of piano music
I can't type -- I mean play -- more than 500 notes per minute. I suppose that makes me a half-fast piano player.
-
- Pianophiliac
- Posts: 173
- Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:21 am
- Instruments played, if any: piano (amateur)
- Music Scores: Yes
Re: Fastest piece of piano music
If we do such dubious things here like counting notes per minute I would suggest Cage's 4-33 as the slowest possible piece: zero notes/min!
Have a nice weekend
Paul
Have a nice weekend
Paul
-
- Pianophiliac
- Posts: 326
- Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:01 pm
- Instruments played, if any: piano
- Music Scores: Yes
- Location: Tempe, Arizona USA
- Contact: