Pianophilia

Well, Alfred, it's hard to separate the collectors from those who PLAY and hopefully there is much overlap.

But "Sind meine Bemühungen keinen Kreu(t)zer wert??!!" OUCH!

Besides the wonderful insights Kreutzer is giving us, these original HIRES SCANS print out so beautifully and display so much more clearly on the monitor. I am finding it necessary to print out many of these Kreutzer editions of the pieces that I frequently play, since when comparing these editions there is much to mark up. I must confess to having spent very little time with the tarantella and the bolero in the past and am enjoying some quality time with these pieces via this bright and shiny edition.

I am totally impressed with the Kreutzer editions!!!!

Thanks Alfor.

I am rather surprised it is relatively unknown in South East Asia, when most are drawn to Pederwski, Henle and New Chopin edition.

soh choon wee wrote:I am totally impressed with the Kreutzer editions!!!!

Thanks Alfor.

I am rather surprised it is relatively unknown in South East Asia, when most are drawn to Pederwski, Henle and New Chopin edition.

You are welcome!

The Kreutzer edition was published less than a decade before the Nazis destroyed most of the Jewish-German culture. Kreutzer's Jewish descent may be one reason that it was never republished. Another is that in more recent times this edition must (correctly!) be judged as „over-edited“ (i.e. as a thoroughly personal reading of a famous pianist) and as „non-Urtext“.

Now times have changed: We have a www and so each of us has access to the sources (autographs and first editions). So imho it may be time to look backwards to all the Chopin editions which can give us one or the other valuable hint for interpretation.

P.S. Who is Pederwski???

fleubis wrote:...I must confess to having spent very little time with the tarantella and the bolero in the past and am enjoying some quality time with these pieces via this bright and shiny edition.

You might be interested in an excellent (broadcast) recording of the Bolero*** by an unfortunately very little known pianist?

***Imho by far the better of the two pieces

I'll bet most of us have the PWM Chopin nearby--it's been my "go-to" edition for many years--and still will be for those pieces Kreutzer didn't edit for us. It certainly is a great joy for all of us to have access to this wealth of editions to choose from. (I vividly recall the cyclical trends of various editions in terms of popularity and being somewhat bewildered by Bach Urtext at the time). We are indeed fortunate that Alfred has preserved this valuable edition which would otherwise likely only exist on a dusty library shelf somewhere. (The same can be said for the massive treasure trove of rather unknown composers of which we are the beneficiaries.)

Were it not for Rubinstein, both the Bolero & Tarantella would likely have not returned to the concert stage (still seems rare)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDX_IP5U2VI

fleubis wrote:I'll bet most of us have the PWM Chopin nearby--it's been my "go-to" edition for many years--and still will be for those pieces Kreutzer didn't edit for us. It certainly is a great joy for all of us to have access to this wealth of editions to choose from. (I vividly recall the cyclical trends of various editions in terms of popularity and being somewhat bewildered by Bach Urtext at the time). We are indeed fortunate that Alfred has preserved this valuable edition which would otherwise likely only exist on a dusty library shelf somewhere. (The same can be said for the massive treasure trove of rather unknown composers of which we are the beneficiaries.)

Were it not for Rubinstein, both the Bolero & Tarantella would likely have not returned to the concert stage (still seems rare)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDX_IP5U2VI

The "go-to" PWM Pederwski (oh, no wonder I cannot be a pianist, I keep playing the wrong notes, and missed out notes) had been replaced by the newer Eiker edition.
But I like the Henle for both concerto, the paging and spacing seems more comfortable than Paderewski.

That said, who was the editor for Augener edition?? It had been quite a while I have not seen it.

There is one thing in the so-called „Paderewski-Edition“ we can't tolerate in times of real
„Urtext“ editions:

They frequently changed Chopin's orthography***, which imho is not tolerable and can lead to
severe confusion when learning a piece.

***Admittedly Chopin's orthography often is quite sophisticated and you will hardly find any older edition where the editors did NOT (tacidly) change the notation of
bars 27 and 28 of the Etude op. 25 No. 10!!

Hmm! Op.25 No.10. This is one piece I added to my "not playing this anymore" list after hearing Horowitz play this in person (2nd row seat!). Anyway, I agree those measures 27 & 28 are at the very least a bit perplexing.

fleubis wrote:Hmm! Op.25 No.10. This is one piece I added to my "not playing this anymore" list after hearing Horowitz play this in person (2nd row seat!). Anyway, I agree those measures 27 & 28 are at the very least a bit perplexing.

Did Horowitz play the octaves with finger legato and audible inner melody or as a cascade of noisy staccato octaves with lots of pedal?

Ferruccio wrote:

fleubis wrote:Hmm! Op.25 No.10. This is one piece I added to my "not playing this anymore" list after hearing Horowitz play this in person (2nd row seat!). Anyway, I agree those measures 27 & 28 are at the very least a bit perplexing.

Did Horowitz play the octaves with finger legato and audible inner melody or as a cascade of noisy staccato octaves with lots of pedal?

No, definitely not finger legato--not possible at the speed he played it. Yes lots of pedal, but in spite of this pedaling the inner voices came through most of the time. I recall on several instances, him playing the top notes with the 3rd finger! Horowitz was not as his best when I heard him, being under the influence of drugs at the time. I don't think he ever recorded this particular etude.