OH NO, OH NO.. what ill wind has come upon us. He is back, the most useless member here. Stng21, may I suggest you block the left hand into a lead note and chord, helps to put it together after practicing hands apart. Then when you can play it in speed, open the chords.. helps in finger security and speed, basically, if you count it .. you will never get it up performance tempo... just a useless input....
My Dearest HellandHullandfaxittome..... may I uselessly suggest , J Kleczynski, I have and old, and I MEAN OLD, falling apart copy of his Chopin's Works... if you can't find and intact copy, I will try and photo copy mine and mail it to you privately.
Thank the Lord on high, the wind direction is changing, you will all be safe again.... Oberon
Playing Chopin
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Scordatura
Re: Playing Chopin
Hello HullandHellandHalifax!
You can view high-quality facsimiles of all three (French, German, English) first editions on Chopin First Editions Online [ http://www.cfeo.org.uk/apps/ ]
and a low-resolution facsimile of Chopin's autograph MS. on The Fryderyk Chopin Institute's site [ http://en.chopin.nifc.pl/chopin/composi ... ail/id/199 ] (click the thumbnail on the Gallery, located to the right of the page; to magnify the image, press Ctrl + (+on the numeric pad in this case)).
Interestingly, you can see in the MS that Chopin originally left the two left hand notes D, C sharp unslurred, commencing the next slur on the first semiquaver of bar 9. Subsequently he extended this slur in bold ink to incorporate the two aforementioned quavers. All three first editions follow this later amendment.
The French and English editions contain a pair of hairpins indicating a slight stressing of the right hand D chord, and suggesting a slight rallentando on it and a hint of a fermata on the following C sharp. To my mind, Chopin's left hand slurring unequivocally implies the last two notes should be conveyed as leading into bar 9, but the suggestion of an echo is explicit and to my ear unescapable. So I don't think it's necessary to agonize over finding a way to draw the listener's attention to the echo effect on the grounds that playing it as a lead-in would diminish that effect. It's not a case here of choosing the lead-in interpretation at the expense of the echo interpretation (or vice versa) - to me the two left hand notes are an anacrusis that happens to be an echo, and equally, an echo that can be played as an anacrusis, if that makes sense. If you feel some agogic expression is needed, then I'd suggest a slight fermata on the left hand D but a somewhat forward-moving C sharp that subsides into the next bar, dynamically accentuating the D and downplaying the C sharp. However, you might find it clarifying to work on bar 8 in strict time, achieving all the musical shaping by way of dynamic shading and meticulous articulation, and on the basis of what can be achieved solely in those terms then decide what agogic shaping is still needed or most apt.
Hope this helps!
Richard.
You can view high-quality facsimiles of all three (French, German, English) first editions on Chopin First Editions Online [ http://www.cfeo.org.uk/apps/ ]
and a low-resolution facsimile of Chopin's autograph MS. on The Fryderyk Chopin Institute's site [ http://en.chopin.nifc.pl/chopin/composi ... ail/id/199 ] (click the thumbnail on the Gallery, located to the right of the page; to magnify the image, press Ctrl + (+on the numeric pad in this case)).
Interestingly, you can see in the MS that Chopin originally left the two left hand notes D, C sharp unslurred, commencing the next slur on the first semiquaver of bar 9. Subsequently he extended this slur in bold ink to incorporate the two aforementioned quavers. All three first editions follow this later amendment.
The French and English editions contain a pair of hairpins indicating a slight stressing of the right hand D chord, and suggesting a slight rallentando on it and a hint of a fermata on the following C sharp. To my mind, Chopin's left hand slurring unequivocally implies the last two notes should be conveyed as leading into bar 9, but the suggestion of an echo is explicit and to my ear unescapable. So I don't think it's necessary to agonize over finding a way to draw the listener's attention to the echo effect on the grounds that playing it as a lead-in would diminish that effect. It's not a case here of choosing the lead-in interpretation at the expense of the echo interpretation (or vice versa) - to me the two left hand notes are an anacrusis that happens to be an echo, and equally, an echo that can be played as an anacrusis, if that makes sense. If you feel some agogic expression is needed, then I'd suggest a slight fermata on the left hand D but a somewhat forward-moving C sharp that subsides into the next bar, dynamically accentuating the D and downplaying the C sharp. However, you might find it clarifying to work on bar 8 in strict time, achieving all the musical shaping by way of dynamic shading and meticulous articulation, and on the basis of what can be achieved solely in those terms then decide what agogic shaping is still needed or most apt.
Hope this helps!
Richard.
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HullandHellandHalifax
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Re: Playing Chopin
Hello Richard,
many thanks for your detailed response, I found looking at the manuscript facsimile extremely interesting. As you say Chopins first idea was as I thought that those two notes were an echo and not an upbeat as indicated in the printed editions, the upbeat was not consistent with the rest of the Prelude hence my question. It seems then that Chopin had second thoughts but whether his later thoughts are better is another question. We know all too well that when composers change things it is not always for the better and I could indeed argue that case here. Certainly it makes the musical problem fascinating how the player reconciles the indications in the score with his intellectual and aural knowledge and experience. Personally I favour a slight accent falling on the LH D and taking the C# a little shorter to lead into bar 9 so that those notes serve a double function as you suggest as both anacrusis and echo.
Thanks for the reply, very stimulating and regarding Hummel, I will do a test at the copy shop and see if it is possible to copy the book without breaking anything and which gives a readable copy.
Brian
many thanks for your detailed response, I found looking at the manuscript facsimile extremely interesting. As you say Chopins first idea was as I thought that those two notes were an echo and not an upbeat as indicated in the printed editions, the upbeat was not consistent with the rest of the Prelude hence my question. It seems then that Chopin had second thoughts but whether his later thoughts are better is another question. We know all too well that when composers change things it is not always for the better and I could indeed argue that case here. Certainly it makes the musical problem fascinating how the player reconciles the indications in the score with his intellectual and aural knowledge and experience. Personally I favour a slight accent falling on the LH D and taking the C# a little shorter to lead into bar 9 so that those notes serve a double function as you suggest as both anacrusis and echo.
Thanks for the reply, very stimulating and regarding Hummel, I will do a test at the copy shop and see if it is possible to copy the book without breaking anything and which gives a readable copy.
Brian