Bach - Hyphenated

Piano, Fortepiano and Harpsichord Music
ivesman19
Participant
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:18 am
Instruments played, if any: piano
Music Scores: No

Re: Bach - Hyphenated

Post by ivesman19 »

shalvats wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:47 pm Dear friends, I am looking for Rosalyn Tureck's edition of Italian Concerto!
I own the Tureck edition of the Italian Concerto, and I highly recommend it to anyone who enjoys a peek into how a musician of Tureck's stature approaches learning and interpreting a work.

As your uploaded image of the first page Andante shows, this is clearly not an 'urtext work' in the commonly understood sense. Tureck writes that since there survives no 'original' of this work -- only later copies and editions -- a true urtext is unattainable. Thus, she has chosen to edit the work according to her understanding of the 'performance practices' of the period. Of course, her decisions have been scrutinized and criticized by other pianists and IMO justly so, in one particular case. No one would -- or should -- confuse this with urtext.

I would describe this edition as 'What and urtext edition of the Italian Concerto would look like, after having ten piano lessons on the piece with Roselyn Tureck (pencil in-hand)."

I'm a big fan of performance editions. Those by Earl Wild of selected works by Liszt, are particularly illuminating, in their clever use of hand distribution to better do justice to the music itself. I would put Tureck's contribution alongside this. Her choices of fingering are interesting, because they directly serve the articulation of the music.
User avatar
shalvats
Member
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:49 pm
Instruments played, if any: piano
Music Scores: Yes

Re: Bach - Hyphenated

Post by shalvats »

ivesman19 wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:25 am
shalvats wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:47 pm Dear friends, I am looking for Rosalyn Tureck's edition of Italian Concerto!
I own the Tureck edition of the Italian Concerto, and I highly recommend it to anyone who enjoys a peek into how a musician of Tureck's stature approaches learning and interpreting a work.

As your uploaded image of the first page Andante shows, this is clearly not an 'urtext work' in the commonly understood sense. Tureck writes that since there survives no 'original' of this work -- only later copies and editions -- a true urtext is unattainable. Thus, she has chosen to edit the work according to her understanding of the 'performance practices' of the period. Of course, her decisions have been scrutinized and criticized by other pianists and IMO justly so, in one particular case. No one would -- or should -- confuse this with urtext.

I would describe this edition as 'What and urtext edition of the Italian Concerto would look like, after having ten piano lessons on the piece with Roselyn Tureck (pencil in-hand)."

I'm a big fan of performance editions. Those by Earl Wild of selected works by Liszt, are particularly illuminating, in their clever use of hand distribution to better do justice to the music itself. I would put Tureck's contribution alongside this. Her choices of fingering are interesting, because they directly serve the articulation of the music.
you are right, Tureck's understanding of the second movement has a highly personal sense, I tried it on my old grand piano and result was great, its soft sound with Tureck's thoughtful ornamentation produced effect of an old archive recording. I never saw other pages of it, due of corona, I cant order the score right now, as I live in Georgia (not USA state).
Aggelos
Pianophiliac
Posts: 237
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:42 pm
Instruments played, if any: piano
Music Scores: Yes
Location: Greece

Re: Bach - Hyphenated

Post by Aggelos »

Bach / Junichi Steven Sato : Passacaglia and Fugue BWV 582 (nms)
Bach Carl Philipp Emanuel / Junichi Steven Sato : Suscepit Israel , Aria from Magnificat

Mod edit: files removed due to copyright issues. FB
tracyross
Member
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:59 am
Instruments played, if any: Piano, electric keyboards, harpsichord, organ, trumpet, flugelhorn, cornet, piccolo trumpet
Music Scores: Yes

Re: Bach - Hyphenated

Post by tracyross »

I would love to see more of these Sato transcriptions and also, how are these public domain?
bingo
Site Admin
Posts: 529
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:57 pm
Instruments played, if any: piano
Music Scores: Yes

Re: Bach - Hyphenated

Post by bingo »

tracyross wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 9:59 pm I would love to see more of these Sato transcriptions and also, how are these public domain?
I don't think they are: he sells them from his own publishing house website https://satomusic.com/printmusic/
Timtin
Pianodeity
Posts: 2002
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:36 pm
Instruments played, if any: Piano40
Music Scores: Yes
Contact:

Re: Bach - Hyphenated

Post by Timtin »

tracyross wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 9:59 pm I would love to see more of these Sato transcriptions and also, how are these public domain?
Good question - the above files do appear to be an infringement of c*p*r*ght.
User avatar
fredbucket
Site Admin
Posts: 2045
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:51 am
Instruments played, if any: Piano, Harpsichord, Organ, Piano Accordian, Button Accordian, Anglo and Duet Concertinas, Oboe, Cor Anglais, 6 & 12 string guitars, 5-string banjo.
Music Scores: Yes
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Bach - Hyphenated

Post by fredbucket »

Timtin wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:06 am Good question - the above files do appear to be an infringement of c*p*r*ght.
Agreed. Files have been removed.

Regards
Fred
tonylucuchu
Member
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:27 am
Instruments played, if any: piano
Music Scores: No

Re: Bach - Hyphenated

Post by tonylucuchu »

Does anyone know if there is a romantic era arrangement of the Bach fantasy and fugue BwV 903? The Busoni edition only offered a few alternatives and same with the Bulow edition. I found a few romantic interpretation recordings on YouTube and it made me think that perhaps there's a relatively unknown arrangement that offers more octaves, adding more voices in the fugue, and possibly a cadenza?
bingo
Site Admin
Posts: 529
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:57 pm
Instruments played, if any: piano
Music Scores: Yes

Re: Bach - Hyphenated

Post by bingo »

tonylucuchu wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 11:46 pm Does anyone know if there is a romantic era arrangement of the Bach fantasy and fugue BwV 903? The Busoni edition only offered a few alternatives and same with the Bulow edition. I found a few romantic interpretation recordings on YouTube and it made me think that perhaps there's a relatively unknown arrangement that offers more octaves, adding more voices in the fugue, and possibly a cadenza?
There's a Sorabji arrangement too.

The recordings you reference are probably player indulgences which were more common before modern urtext practices. If they exist written down it would be likely as third-party performance transcriptions as done for Horowitz, Volodos et al.
User avatar
shalvats
Member
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:49 pm
Instruments played, if any: piano
Music Scores: Yes

Re: Bach - Hyphenated

Post by shalvats »

tonylucuchu wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 11:46 pm Does anyone know if there is a romantic era arrangement of the Bach fantasy and fugue BwV 903? The Busoni edition only offered a few alternatives and same with the Bulow edition. I found a few romantic interpretation recordings on YouTube and it made me think that perhaps there's a relatively unknown arrangement that offers more octaves, adding more voices in the fugue, and possibly a cadenza?
try Sorabji's version, you can find the score easily

Post Reply