Pianophilia

I've just read on Wikipedia that the first version of Saint-Saëns 2nd piano concerto was originally for pédalier and orchestra. Does anyone know if a copy of this original exists?

what is pedalier??? How different is it from the piano??

soh choon wee wrote:what is pedalier??? How different is it from the piano??

Soh choon wee here is a picture of the pedalier once owned by Alkan. They are basically a hybrid piano with an organ pedalboard, the piano has mechanical linkages to the organ pedal board. The advantage being that you can create all manner of effects that are impossible on an organ including the use of a seven octave keyboard but without the sustaining power of an organ or its myriad of registers. You can play all fugues on the pedalier and really bring out the entries which is almost impossible on the organ unless you use more than one keyboard. However in the Bach era the emphasis was on the counterpoint and not telegraphing each and every entry of the fugue subject to the audience which is far more common in the last two centuries.
Many organists in the 19th century had them at home for practice purposes as the churches were cold when not in use and the supply of men and boys to man the bellows also in short supply, electric blowers had not been invented by then and manpower (often more than 1) was needed to supply the wind to the organ. Not a problem with a pedalier of course. Later in the century some organists commissioned harmonium builders to build replica organs as this was much closer to what they played in the cathedrals etc. Marmaduke Conway of Ely cathedral had one which I have played, you need arms like Popeye by the way when everything is coupled through, but at least you are warm and in the safety of your own house.
Thinking of buying a pedalier??
regards
Brian

Very interesting, Brian. I once played a pedal harpsichord....now that was an experience and for Bach fugue it is really good. In this case the pedal portion is detachable and it contains its own strings and thus no linkages to the harpsichord. I never could quite get used to hearing the sound coming from BELOW!

I don't quite get the pedal piano even though a few composers we all know & love have written for it. Trying to manage the pedals plus the damper pedal would seem to required 3 feet, however I don't remember seeing any scores for the pedalier where the damper was indicated. Am very thankful Liszt never wrote for it!

4candles wrote:I've just read on Wikipedia that the first version of Saint-Saëns 2nd piano concerto was originally for pédalier and orchestra. Does anyone know if a copy of this original exists?

Saint-Saëns, although a piano prodigy, actually made his name first as an organist, so obviously would have been familiar with the pédalier.

Regards
Fred

is it similarly to one that Mozart possessed??? I vaguely remember reading somewhere, the Rondoo of A major sonata utilise some effect of bells (or something like that)?
Wonder if there is any commercial interest nowadays....

Sidenote: I always admire organist who are able to play another voice with their legs. I would have lost balance and tripped over.

Yes, the pedal-piano was known in Germany and, clearly, Austria as the pedal-flügel before it became popular in France (I think Mozart's famous Fantasia in F minor was written for it?). I believe one or two enterprising organists such as Lemmens piqued interest in Paris during recitals there in the 1840s, which is where Alkan first heard the instrument. From Boëly to Dubois, the pédalier became a vehicle of expression hitherto uninvestigated. Saint-Saëns was an expert on the instrument, and played it with Alkan in some of the latter's Petits Concerts. Delaborde and Alkan were the most highly regarded players of the instrument.

Today it's making a bit of a comeback, with players like Dalibor Miklavčič, Jean Dubé and Roberto Prosseda delving into its repertoire. Several videos are available on YouTube.

But does anyone know if the version of Saint-Saëns's 2nd PC exists in its original form for pedal-piano and orchestra?

Just for accuracy the Mozart Fantasia in F minor was not written for a pedal-flugel but for a mechanical clock which played a small organ, as far as I know the organ playing clock is no longer in existence. All the arrangements for the organ printed in the last 200 years expand the limited original into a "playable" format for the organ. Mozart wrote a number of pieces for the super-clock as did Haydn and Beethoven and many other lesser and unknown composers.
There is a book published by the Museum of Mechanical Musical Instruments in Utrecht which has pictures of clocks and automata that play spinets and organs with transcriptions of the music played on them, the book is called Royal Music machines and is well worth buying, needless to say the museum is very definitely worth visiting.
regards
Brian