Pianophilia

Alfor, I'm looking forward to unpacking my Schnabel editions and see what I've got. Just on the face of it, playing that Beethoven passage cross-hands seems more like a visual stunt for the audience than a legitimate fingering, IMHO.

But it sure is interesting to see what some of these great pianists come up with. I greatly treasure my CD's of Schnabel's Beethoven sonatas--mistakes and all. Too bad we have no visual record of his performance of this particular passage.

fleubis wrote:Alfor, I'm looking forward to unpacking my Schnabel editions and see what I've got. Just on the face of it, playing that Beethoven passage cross-hands seems more like a visual stunt for the audience than a legitimate fingering, IMHO.

Maybe that is the reason why it was omitted in the Curci edition??

I just wanted to alert you to this legitimate means of fingering, while I - like Arrau - in most cases disapprove of "splitting"***.

***Germany is still haunted by notorious "splitterers", i.e. pianists who try to distribute each and every passage between the two hands for the only purpose of making it easier to play. (One of the worst examples is to play the beginning of Beethoven's op. 111 with both hands simultaneously, each hand playing E flat - F sharp, one octave apart).

A German school of "splitting" descends from the pianist Ludwig Hoffmann (1925-1999). His pupils first had to copy her masters "splitty" fingerings and that tradition was passed along to his grand- and greatgrandpupils. The result IMHO: tons of "torn phrases" and "de-energized rhythms"!

Arrau is right, as usual. He would brook none of this "splitter" nonsense.

However, Siloti did some nice splitting of a rather difficult Liszt piece, and IMHO, Siloti could do no wrong (Au Bord d'une Source - if memory serves me).

Thank you for feedback!

Dear fleubis,

yes, it is "Au Bord d'une Source" (see the valuable "Siloti collection", publ. Carl Fischer, still in print!!) . But Siloti did what I would call a (useful) "redistribution" rather than "splitting".

BACH-BOEKELMAN
Inventions B

Dear Alfor, what a nice clean analysis of some of those inventions. This is an excellent teaching tool.

I happily to say that I have at hand that Siloti Collection by Carl Fisher, and it is simply OUTSTANDING. I will surely agree that it is a "redistribution" in the "Au Bord d'une Source".

Horowitz makes it look so easy without the redistribution, but I find it considerably easier to play and have it almost re-learned using Siloti's fingerings. One of my most favorite Liszt pieces, a truly perfect gem.

alfor wrote:
.....
A German school of "splitting" descends from the pianist Ludwig Hoffmann (1925-1999). His pupils first had to copy her masters "splitty" fingerings and that tradition was passed along to his grand- and greatgrandpupils. The result IMHO: tons of "torn phrases" and "de-energized rhythms"!

Very well said, Alfor !

Sometimes the splitting technique helps, but in most cases as a technical system and ideology it is against the pianistic meaning and idea of the piece.
People who split the first Chopin study or the Ravel concerto for the left hand, should think about leaving these pieces to colleagues.

BACH-BOEKELMAN
INVENTIONS C P.S. SILOTI had rather big resp. "stretchy" hands (he was the cousin of Rachmaninoff!).
So he is reported to have played the bottom line of the octaves in Chopin's Polonaise op. 53
with the 2nd (!!) to 5th finger!

BACH-BOEKELMAN
Inventions D

alfor wrote:BACH-BOEKELMAN
Inventions D

Bach-Boekelman Inventions D.pdf

Thank you very much Alfor.

Alfred, wonderful to to have the BACH-BOEKELMAN. This is a great teaching aid. And I have found several very interesting points that I had not noticed before. Now I guess we're all wondering if Boeklman did the 3-part Inventions as well.

P.P.S: Alfred, I guessed Siloti had pretty big hands, but I didn't know that were that large! I lament the out-of-print biography of Siloti by Charles Barber, "Lost in the Stars: The Forgotten Musical Life of Alexander Siloti" which I am dying to read where likely other choice tidbits can be found out about this great musician.