Alfor's Rarities

[fleubis]

While we are all lusting after Alfor's rare scores, it is treat to see these two interesting editions of the well known and much loved Op.2 Brahms Sonata. I have never seen anything like that Whiting pedal notation....very interesting and precise and as a composer, I keep asking myself "Why didn't I think of that?".

The preface is a must read to get the finer points.

In my younger days I had many Shirmer editions, mainly due to their being rather inexpensive, but gradually weaned myself away their heavy editing. In more recent years, I found it interesting to pull some ideas from some of these editions--and this pedaling notation can be very useful.

Meanwhile, I'm just reveling in the joy of having some genuine hires Alfor scans to enjoy!

Thanks for posting these two Brahms editions.

[pianophiliac]

Hello,

this is really getting quite silly ....

Is it? Maybe I'm missing something here but I hardly see the deletion of currently published, not especially rare Urtext editions a bad move. And I fail to see what the "impossible burden" is. Is this simply a hoarder question? That one must amass a vast collection of rare sheet music?

I am happy to respect copyright ownership even if it means that I must save up the money to buy it. Personally speaking, while I find myself downloading alot of what Alfor uploads (and I share your respect and admiration for what he offers), I have played only a fraction of it, and I wouldn't feel at any loss whatsoever should a fraction of his uploads were restricted.

Let's keep a modicum of perspective of what this whole internet/digital age offers, shall we?

[Caprotti]

Cesi B. - 54 - 6 studi da Schubert.pdf

I believe that his kind of pedal notation was taken from Beniamino Cesi. see for instance the attachment.

[alfor]

While we are all lusting after Alfor's rare scores, it is treat to see these two interesting editions of the well known and much loved Op.2 Brahms Sonata. I have never seen anything like that Whiting pedal notation....very interesting and precise and as a composer, I keep asking myself "Why didn't I think of that?".

The preface is a must read to get the finer points.

In my younger days I had many Shirmer editions, mainly due to their being rather inexpensive, but gradually weaned myself away their heavy editing. In more recent years, I found it interesting to pull some ideas from some of these editions--and this pedaling notation can be very useful.

Meanwhile, I'm just reveling in the joy of having some genuine hires Alfor scans to enjoy!

Thanks for posting these two Brahms editions.

Dear fleubis,

you are welcome!

Please let me know if you are interested in any other
Brahms-Whiting
or
Brahms-Steuermann
scores.

Best regards

alfor

[alfor]

Cesi B. - 54 - 6 studi da Schubert.pdf

I believe that his kind of pedal notation was taken from Beniamino Cesi. see for instance the attachment.

Dear Caprotti,

thank you for these extraordinarily interesting
Schubert transcriptions.
When were they published?

best regards

alfor

[Timtin]

Yes, I agree about those very interesting Schubert transcriptions,
although personally I'm not too interested in the pedal line. This
is because I believe that good pianists should be able to do the
required pedalling instinctively.

Sibley has another set of 6 transcriptions by Beniamino Cesi.
https://urresearch.rochester.edu/instit ... emId=11658

Here's more information about him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beniamino_Cesi

I note that Brahms-Whiting Sonatas Nos.1&3 are already available
on IMSLP.
http://imslp.org/wiki/Piano_Sonata_No.1 ... ohannes%29
http://imslp.org/wiki/Piano_Sonata_No.3 ... ohannes%29

[alfor]

P.S.

According to the PROMT online translator
"Streichquartette"
are
"prank quartets"

Quite remarkable that the software separates
"Streich" from "quartette" and then - quite
correct in other contexts - translates
"Streich" with "prank".

[Jim Faston]

Yes, I agree about those very interesting Schubert transcriptions,
although personally I'm not too interested in the pedal line. This
is because I believe that good pianists should be able to do the
required pedalling instinctively.

Sibley has another set of 6 transcriptions by Beniamino Cesi.
https://urresearch.rochester.edu/instit ... emId=11658

Here's more information about him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beniamino_Cesi

I note that Brahms-Whiting Sonatas Nos.1&3 are already available
on IMSLP.
http://imslp.org/wiki/Piano_Sonata_No.1 ... ohannes%29
http://imslp.org/wiki/Piano_Sonata_No.3 ... ohannes%29

You've got to be kidding me--the three Brahms-Whiting sonatas do indeed appear on IMSLP, but the unique pedalling notation has been removed along with any publisher info. The front matter was not included either. Kudos to Alfor for providing a complete scan of the second. There should be some sort of notice in the miscellaneous notes bucket on IMSLP indicating these omissions from the original edition.

[Timtin]

Yes Jim, you're right about the IMSLP scans. I hadn't actually viewed
them prior to my previous message. Apologies for that. I've compared
Op.1 with my own Brahms-Whiting score, and it's been heavily edited
for some strange reason.

Regarding instinctive pedalling, I'm not the only person who has this view.

http://www.pianocareer.com/piano-pedal/ ... edals-art/

[Richard0428]

Regarding instinctive pedalling, I'm not the only person who has this view.

http://www.pianocareer.com/piano-pedal/ ... edals-art/

Actually, I'm sure the majority of thinking pianists find the the often simplistic pedaling marked on many edited scores a bit laughable. In my experience not only is the pedaling marked in many scores often simplistic in the extreme (and sometimes either misleading or just plain wrong!), it's also often nowhere near accurate enough - a good pianist will have a far more nuanced control over his or her pedal than than the often highly generalised pedal marks put in by editors would make it appear. Pedaling is one of the most important aspects of piano technique and interpretation, and one that should pianists should start learning from the early stages of study: it soon becomes instinctive. Sure, in later Romantic and twentieth century music pedaling often becomes a lot more challenging and (apart from the composer's intented pedaling where marked, which should of course always be at least tried out) suggestions are useful, but the pedalling marked on these Schubert/Cesi Etudes strikes me as mainly of interest for the novel pedal notation. Cesi's pedalling suggestions (or rather the ones that I've looked at anyway) don't strike me personally as especially imaginative or instructive (and isn't it a bit dry having absolutely no pedal for long bars of music), and some won't be even workable for everyone (pianists with small hands will need to use an extra dash of pedal to sustain the tenth chords).
Just a personal opinion!

On a related subject, some editors also annotate editions with some of the strangest fingerings! Fingering is an even more personal subject, since everyone's hand is different of course, but it amazes me to see requests for fingered versions of quite technically advanced pieces - surely learning how to finger a piece of music is a central skill (like pedaling and interpretation) that any pianist should be constantly aiming to improve. It's good to see how other people tackle various fingering problems of course, but I've often got the feeling that piano students simply can't start a piece unless it's fingered for them. If so there's something crucial missing in their training....