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Graceless notes and other type-setting discoveries

Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:59 am
by bingo
I have discovered a new grace-note/ornament in the wild,which I have christened the carcrashiatura:
DANDRIEU-FRIEDMAN Les Fifres - car-crashiatura.jpg
From the last measures of Friedman's arrangement of Les Fifres, by Dandrieu.

Re: Graceless notes and other type-setting discoveries

Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:10 pm
by fredbucket
Yes, I have that score. When you look at it, it really is an upper mordent played (necessarily) with both hands. I'm not so sure about the crossing of the appogiaturas though. Friedman obviously wanted it played on the beat, not before the beat.

Incidentally, a few bars earlier has a number of triple-dotted quavers. I think those would be fairly rare.

Regards
Fred

Re: Graceless notes and other type-setting discoveries

Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:21 am
by bingo
I think that the only other score I've noticed with a triple-dot is also by Friedman.

In this particular case, it's a fudge to allow the matching 11- and 13-tuples glissando finish in the left-hand.
friedman-tripledots.jpg

Re: Graceless notes and other type-setting discoveries

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:02 am
by timgill
The last movement of Liszt's 1st piano concerto has, I believe a quadruple-dotted minim about 4 bars before the end

Re: Graceless notes and other type-setting discoveries

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:58 pm
by fredbucket
timgill wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:02 am The last movement of Liszt's 1st piano concerto has, I believe a quadruple-dotted minim about 4 bars before the end
The copies I have of that all have a triple dot... :-)

A good spot though, this is a genuine one instead of the the 'fudged' one above.

Regards
Fred

Re: Graceless notes and other type-setting discoveries

Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:32 am
by timgill
You're right (although I was close). So it's probably about as rare as a B double-sharp...

Re: Graceless notes and other type-setting discoveries

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:36 am
by bingo
If I had all my scores in uncompressed MusicXML format, I could just search on a sequence of <dot> markup to identify all multiply-dotted notes.

<type>eighth</type>
<dot/>
<dot/>
<dot/>

Music thesis anyone? :D

Re: Graceless notes and other type-setting discoveries

Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:42 pm
by Pianoman
fredbucket wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:58 pm
timgill wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:02 am The last movement of Liszt's 1st piano concerto has, I believe a quadruple-dotted minim about 4 bars before the end
The copies I have of that all have a triple dot... :-)

A good spot though, this is a genuine one instead of the the 'fudged' one above.

Regards
Fred
The SECOND Concerto also has quadruple-dotted minims (m.327 and 331):
liszt2.JPG

Chopin, "only" has a triple-dotted minim in his 2nd Sonata, Op.35 (1st mvmt):
chopin2.JPG