Pianophilia

I assume you can tune the piano in a way you can play that sort of music with the needed quarters of tone.
However, I think piano and accordeon are often used now to play traditionnal music without the necessary tuning and of course the music loses a bit of its authenticity ; it does not hurt that much our Western ears (for those of us who are Western) not very familiar with the oriental modes (maqams).

It has been a long time since this thread was activated so now is the time for something which has more curiosity value than musical value, unless you happen to be Turkish I suppose. As you can see this music was published in Constantinople which immediately dates it to the end of the 19th century at the latest. Why am I telling you this I hear you say, well if you look at the music you will be struck by the time signatures and the breakdown of the rhythmic units with in the bar and at the use of the "fade out" at the end of some pieces anticipating that usage in pop music by many decades.
Also please look at piece number 5 Hidjaz and kindly tell me how you would describe the key signature, as I think this must be the first occasion this key signature has ever been used and to be honest it is so logical I wonder why no-one had thought of it before. I know there are many pieces written in different keys for each hand but this is different.
I have no idea who Caroline Pons ( nee Bellot) was but I get the idea she was really trying to recreate the rhythms and harmonies she heard in Turkey and I am in no position to judge her success on that score. The fact that it was published in Constantinople would suggest that it was done for the home market and therefore the authenticity of the transcription should have been paramount. Anyone that can throw more light on this musical curiosity will be heartily welcomed as I really would like to know more.

HullandHellandHalifax wrote:It has been a long time since this thread was activated so now is the time for something which has more curiosity value than musical value, unless you happen to be Turkish I suppose. As you can see this music was published in Constantinople which immediately dates it to the end of the 19th century at the latest. Why am I telling you this I hear you say, well if you look at the music you will be struck by the time signatures and the breakdown of the rhythmic units with in the bar and at the use of the "fade out" at the end of some pieces anticipating that usage in pop music by many decades.
Also please look at piece number 5 Hidjaz and kindly tell me how you would describe the key signature, as I think this must be the first occasion this key signature has ever been used and to be honest it is so logical I wonder why no-one had thought of it before. I know there are many pieces written in different keys for each hand but this is different.
I have no idea who Caroline Pons ( nee Bellot) was but I get the idea she was really trying to recreate the rhythms and harmonies she heard in Turkey and I am in no position to judge her success on that score. The fact that it was published in Constantinople would suggest that it was done for the home market and therefore the authenticity of the transcription should have been paramount. Anyone that can throw more light on this musical curiosity will be heartily welcomed as I really would like to know more.

Pons Caroline - Recueil de 7 Airs turcs.pdf

Not finding anything biographical on Caroline Pons, but this collection is part 2 of a larger work (I assume you know?). The full collection is housed in the Biblioteca de Catalunya.

Thanks for the info 4candles, I had seen indeed that it was part 2 and I now know what part 1 contained and where to find it. The intriguing question now is why Catalunya and presumably nowhere else!
thanks
Brian

HullandHellandHalifax wrote:Thanks for the info 4candles, I had seen indeed that it was part 2 and I now know what part 1 contained and where to find it. The intriguing question now is why Catalunya and presumably nowhere else!
thanks
Brian

Just checked out the composer on Worldcat and it seems this work is available in a couple of other places too - the British Library in fact, as well as the University of Chicago library.

Just found a basic record for a 'Carolina Beliot', who died in Istanbul. This must be the lady.

Well done 4candles, you certainly deserve the archaeological prize for today as that most definitely is the lady in question. Good to know that a few libraries have copies, I wonder if any of them have it already scanned? In any case thanks for your very valuable work here.
best wishes
Brian

Hi piano friends!

Does anyone have the music scores of the Ten Sketches on Aksak Rhythm op 58 by Turkish composer Adnan Saygun?

Thanks!

Brytner wrote:Hi piano friends!

Does anyone have the music scores of the Ten Sketches on Aksak Rhythm op 58 by Turkish composer Adnan Saygun?

Thanks!

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=636&p=12781&hilit=Saygun#p12779

Brytner:

The score that you are requestinng by Adnan Saygun is opus is 38 (not 58).

Regards.

ILU.

ilu wrote:Brytner:

The score that you are requestinng by Adnan Saygun is opus is 38 (not 58).

Regards.

ILU.

Dear ILU,

The op 38 includes the Études in Aksak Rhytms.
The sketches are, for sure, op. 58.

Thanks!