School of Syncopation - Jazz, Stride, Novelties & the Like

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gigiranalli
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Re: School of Syncopation - Jazz, Stride, Novelties & the Like.

Post by gigiranalli » Thu May 13, 2010 1:43 pm

fhimpsl wrote:Luigi mentioned a number of Jelly Roll Morton pieces that were unpublished and reside at the Library Of Congress. I will post photocopies of what I have of them....these are multi-generational photocopies with in some cases just awful quality....but used in conjunction with Morton's LOC recordings, they would help one to be able to duplicate Morton's ideas and present a performance of the piece. Some of these are Morton's original submissions to the Library for Copyright purposes; others are arrangements from the estate of Roy Carew; and yet others will I don't know where they originally came from! :o
These are simply fantastic!!!
I especially loved "Buddy Carter", since my interest in the LoC recordings is for the musicians that Morton remembered described. Of course I also like his own pieces very much anyway!
I will post "The Crave" and "Frog-i-More Rag" transcribed by J. Lawrence Cook later, in order to link these pieces to other music facts of interest.
Now just let me post some other transcriptions of the Morton recordings, notated by Cook and Roy Carew.
Here are some...
Enjoy
Luigi
Last edited by gigiranalli on Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: School of Syncopation - Jazz, Stride, Novelties & the Like.

Post by gigiranalli » Thu May 13, 2010 1:46 pm

Mod Edit: Luigi...please can we keep songs within the Vocal Music thread [create a new sub thread if required]. Thank you. Malcolm

Dear Malcolm,
that's alright! I've started a thread on the Vocal Music thread, about "Ragtime, Blues and Jazz songs".
I've just posted other songs by Jelly Roll Morton and I invite everybody here to go and download them.
Here they are: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=467
Speaking of one of the songs I posted there, "Froggie Moore", I will post here, in the School of Syncopation thread, the piano solo version, as recorded by Morton and transcribed by Cook.
I'm going to prepare this kind of things very soon.
Best
Luigi

benjamin75

Re: School of Syncopation - Jazz, Stride, Novelties & the Like.

Post by benjamin75 » Thu May 13, 2010 7:13 pm

Here are two transcriptions from 2 masterful JRM works from his early 78rpm recordings. The famous James Dapogny's book proposes a transcription of Kansas City Stomp's second part; but nothing for the very beautiful King Porter Stomp's Gennett version.
Morton - King Porter Stomp.pdf
Morton - Kansas City Stomp.pdf
Does anyone know if a transcription of the Vocalion 1020 King Porter Stomp exists?

Musically yours

Benjamin I.
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Re: School of Syncopation - Jazz, Stride, Novelties & the Like.

Post by gigiranalli » Fri May 14, 2010 11:34 am

benjamin75 wrote:Here are two transcriptions from 2 masterful JRM works from his early 78rpm recordings. The famous James Dapogny's book proposes a transcription of Kansas City Stomp's second part; but nothing for the very beautiful King Porter Stomp's Gennett version.
Does anyone know if a transcription of the Vocalion 1020 King Porter Stomp exists?
Dear Benjamin,
thank you very much for posting these transcriptions of yours!!
You know I'm very very fond of your transcription of "Kansas City Stomp"!!
Although I don't know if the Vocalion version of King Porter has ever been transcribed, I doubt it was...
Speaking of what is included in the Estate of Jelly Roll Morton, that's the list:
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/service/music/ead ... p.0027.pdf
Instead, I read somewhere that Dapogny may have some projects about transcribing "Mr. Crump's Rag", the great piano solo by Jesse "Tiny" Crump! I wanted to contact him for information...
Today I'll post another transcription of Jelly Roll made by J. Lawrence Cook (this one has been typeset by someone): that's Morton's version in his own New Orleans style of the famous and great "Maple Leaf Rag", the king of rags, possibly composed (I actually strongly believe that) around 1897 by Otis Saunders.
I also include a series of melody lines of Morton tunes.
Best RAGards
Luigi
Last edited by gigiranalli on Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: School of Syncopation - Jazz, Stride, Novelties & the Like.

Post by lebowl » Fri May 14, 2010 1:27 pm

Is JRM considered to play in the "stride" style? His playing reminds me of James P. Johnson, but I thought he lived even before Scott Joplin? I really like his Fingerbreaker, Grandpa's Spells, and King Porter Stomp!

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Re: School of Syncopation - Jazz, Stride, Novelties & the Like.

Post by fhimpsl » Fri May 14, 2010 4:40 pm

lebowl wrote:Is JRM considered to play in the "stride" style? His playing reminds me of James P. Johnson, but I thought he lived even before Scott Joplin? I really like his Fingerbreaker, Grandpa's Spells, and King Porter Stomp!

Hi Lebowl,

I'll try to answer your questions to the best of my ability. Jelly Roll Morton's style is unique unto its own. It is not by any means stride piano, and is much closer to ragtime. However, Jelly Roll's style is yet different from ragtime in that it is much more improvisational in nature. Jelly Roll Morton's playing attempts to imitate the sound of a traditional jazz band; that is how his mind apparently worked. Jelly Roll's playing is essentially in a class by itself.

Scott Joplin was considerably older than Morton, having been born in 1868 and Morton in the 1890's (I forget the historically agreed-upon date). His work defines the idiom of "Classic Ragtime." James P. Johnson was the father of "stride piano" and was also born in the 1890's, so he was a contemporary of Morton. However, Johnson' style is completely different from Morton's - to the extent that they are really opposite sides of the coin. Stride piano heavily utilizes tenths in the bass; solid, broken and walking tenths to a great extent. Like Morton's style it is improvisational, but the riffs and breaks are completely different. The best way to appreciate stride piano style is to listen to James P. Johnson, Fats Waller, Willie "The Lion" Smith recordings, and then follow up with Morton's piano solo recordings. This will give you a better feeling for each style and how they fundamentally differ in the approach to the piano.

All best,

Frank

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Re: School of Syncopation - Jazz, Stride, Novelties & the Like.

Post by gigiranalli » Sun May 16, 2010 8:34 pm

Well, I hope you enjoyed Roy Carew’s “Recreation Rag no.2” that I have posted some days ago.
Today I’m posting “Recreation Rag no.1” and “New Orleans Honky Tonk”, other two pieces by Roy Carew.
Carew composed the two Recreation Rags, maybe somehow inspired by Artie Matthews’ Pastime Rags series, and submitted them to John Stark, who refused the pieces.
Anyway these pieces are very interesting, since Carew put some floating rag strains in there, including music played by Tony Jackson, the famous ragtime pianist and singer that also Jelly Roll Morton admired!
Please pay attention to the last strain in “Recreation Rag no.1”: that’s a funky strain full of slurs and that is the first part of a piece Carew heard from Tony Jackson. That was part of Jackson’s Naked Dance, something the professors used to play to accompany the dances of the upstairs girls of the bordellos.
As you probably know, Roy Carew asked Jelly Roll Morton if he remembered the piece and if he could try to make a piece out of that. The result was the famous “Naked Dance” as played by Jelly Roll Morton. Curiously, the so called “ratty strain” that Carew remembered is not included in this version…
You’ll see I also included the published version of Morton & Jackson’s “Naked Dance”, arranged by J. Lawrence Cook after one of Morton’s recordings of the piece.
Since Roy Carew was interviewed in the 1960s and he also offered samples of his piano playing then, I’m also attaching his recording of the strain played by Tony Jackson. It’s in key of C major, but you’ll see it’s the same strain included in “Recreation Rag no.1” in F major.
About “New Orleans Honky Tonk”, which I kindly received from Benjamin Intartaglia, I would like you to pay attention to its first strain, which is also included in different key in Recreation Rag no.1’s penultimate strain (just before the “ratty strain by Tony Jackson!): that strain is obviously Roy Carew’s version of the last strain in “Pastime Rag no.2” – let’s listen to Roy Carew’s interpretation of the Patime Rag (I included the recording) to hear that strain played in his own style!
Also, in “New Orleans Honky Tonk” there’s another strain Carew heard from Tony Jackson, the last strain. Again he also recorded a sample of that, that I’m also posting.
Another recording of Roy Carew I posted is a snippet of “Recreation Rag no.2” were he plays the “Get Over Dirty” riff also present in “Tiger Rag” and “Barrel House Rag” and then a recording of his well remembered “Full Moon”, a very nice rag (whose first strain is also the second in “New Orleans Honky Tonk”).
You can find the published sheet music of Carew’s “Full Moon” in Benjamin Intartaglia’s website:
http://www.ragtime-france.net/Ragtime/Bon/FBonus.htm
Then, I recommend that you check these pages on Roy Carew on Mike Meddings’ website:
http://www.doctorjazz.co.uk/page26.html
and
http://www.doctorjazz.co.uk/page12.html
and then
http://www.doctorjazz.co.uk/page29.html (Roy Carew on Tony Jackson)
or
http://www.doctorjazz.co.uk/page32.html (on ragtime)
Roy Carew also had the immense honour to interview and write articles with the one I consider the very best ragtime pianist I’ve ever heard, Brun Campbell, the so-called “Ragtime Kid” (my idol!): reading about Carew on Mike Meddings’ website, you’ll also find some of the things written by Carew and Campbell.
You’ll find a lot of details about Carew’s life, his friendship with the New Orleans ragtime greats and a lot of interesting things about ragtime in general, since Carew was very expert about this music genre.
I hope that, in spite of the rather messy post, everything is clear.
Carew has written another rag, entitled “Basin Street Stroller”. I’ve never found that, but I imagine it must be another ragtime medley like his other pieces.
Best RAGards
Luigi
P.S.
As usual, I STRONGLY recommend everybody listens to the recordings (these were taken from the Louisiana Library website).
Roy Carew was not a professional musician, but his interest in ragtime started in the early 1900s and his playing style is obviously quite influenced by the artists he met. He has possibly absorbed something of the style of Tony Jackson and he's also quite a bouncing and peppy ragtime pianist too.
I'm quite interested in including the recordings of the composers of the sheet music I'm posting to let people know how these pieces were supposed to be played.
I hear many unknow people on the internet today giving indication on how to play ragtime and on respecting the composers' intentions and they always say a lot of silly things, while they don't know and don't care at all of how ragtime was actually played then!!! And there are hundreds of recordings of the original pianists to give us a clear idea of what ragtime actually was.
I strongly recommend to people who download the sheet music but not the recordings NOT to try the pieces at all.
Last edited by gigiranalli on Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: School of Syncopation - Jazz, Stride, Novelties & the Like.

Post by gigiranalli » Sun May 16, 2010 9:48 pm

fhimpsl wrote:
lebowl wrote:Is JRM considered to play in the "stride" style? His playing reminds me of James P. Johnson, but I thought he lived even before Scott Joplin? I really like his Fingerbreaker, Grandpa's Spells, and King Porter Stomp!

Hi Lebowl,

I'll try to answer your questions to the best of my ability. Jelly Roll Morton's style is unique unto its own. It is not by any means stride piano, and is much closer to ragtime. However, Jelly Roll's style is yet different from ragtime in that it is much more improvisational in nature. Jelly Roll Morton's playing attempts to imitate the sound of a traditional jazz band; that is how his mind apparently worked. Jelly Roll's playing is essentially in a class by itself.

Scott Joplin was considerably older than Morton, having been born in 1868 and Morton in the 1890's (I forget the historically agreed-upon date). His work defines the idiom of "Classic Ragtime." James P. Johnson was the father of "stride piano" and was also born in the 1890's, so he was a contemporary of Morton. However, Johnson' style is completely different from Morton's - to the extent that they are really opposite sides of the coin. Stride piano heavily utilizes tenths in the bass; solid, broken and walking tenths to a great extent. Like Morton's style it is improvisational, but the riffs and breaks are completely different. The best way to appreciate stride piano style is to listen to James P. Johnson, Fats Waller, Willie "The Lion" Smith recordings, and then follow up with Morton's piano solo recordings. This will give you a better feeling for each style and how they fundamentally differ in the approach to the piano.

All best,

Frank
Thanks for your explanation, Frank, clear and complete as always!
Let me just add that Morton was also quite critical about stride piano and he apparently disliked it.
There have been some curious accidents between Morton and some stride pianists like Duke Ellington (Morton and the Duke hated each others) and Fats Waller...
Morton had fights and arguments with so many fellow musicians! Including a certain pianist from California I will talk about later...
Here I post the last J. Lawrence Cook transcription of a piece by Morton that I have, which is a favorite of mine, "Frog-I-More Rag".
It seems that Morton composed it in honour of ragtime pianist Benson "Froggie" Moore, but there are hints that he actually must have re-worked some of Moore's ragtime strains into this beautiful advanced piece.
The second part of the piece was later published and re-recorded by Morton as "Sweetheart of Mine".
I'm also attaching the manuscript of "Frog-i-More Rag" hand-written by Morton himself: apparently any other ragtime pianist, colleagues of Morton, and even bands who had recorded this piece must have learned it from the simplified manuscript. I dare to suggest that the manuscript may give an idea of what Benson Moore originally played, but it's impossible to know, although Benson Moore recorded something on piano roll (I was surprised to hear a piano roll of him!).
If anybody here would like to know more about Joseph Benson Foracker "Froggie" Moore, there's an interesting article on this ragtime pianist on Mike Meddings' website:
http://www.doctorjazz.co.uk/draftcards2.html#musdcbfm
Frank wrote a clear essay on the differences between Jelly Roll Morton's early jazz piano style and New York stride piano.
I would like to offer an idea on the differences between typical ragtime piano playing and Morton's particular style. To do that, I'm posting here "Frog-I-More Rag" played by Morton himself and two other recordings of this piece, played by two ragtime pianists of the 1910s called Dink Johnson (Morton's brother-in-law, a drummer but also a folk ragtime pianist in N.O. who recorded late in his life) and Barbary Coast ragtime pianist Henry Starr, who had a chance to record this number in the 1920s.
About Henry Starr, a very talented ragtime pianist from Caliornia, he had some great colleagues, because the dangerous Barbary Coast has had as performers several talented ragtimers like Mike Bernard, Ms. Byron Coffin, Jay Roberts, even Jelly Roll Morton himself, and a guy named Sid LeProtti!
Louis Sidney Leprotti was a very talented ragtime pianist who's best remembered for being the original composer of "Canadian Capers": he actually had a rag including one strain that was later stolen and included as the second strain in "Canadian Capers". BTW "Canadian Capers" was a million seller, so you can imagine LeProtti's disgust about this steal!! The story of the steal is rather long and complex, and it also involves Glover Compton, a pianist I've already talked about.
If you're familiar with "Canadian Capers" (there are also several versions recorded, including a great one played by Zez Confrey, one of the greatest players!), you'd be interested to listen to how it originally sounded when played by its composer: Sid LeProtti's rag is a great "black" rag (LeProtti by the way was actually a mulatto, son of an African American mother and an Italian father) and although you'll recognize it as the second strain in the famous rag, there are several important and interesting differences.
Later I will write and post more on LeProtti: I have hours of recorded interviews of him with Turk Murphy and he played a lot of tunes on the piano.
Among the many ragtime pianists LeProtti remembered there also was Jelly Roll Morton, with whom LeProtti had a nasty argument about one piece.
I hope you'll like the things posted. As always, let's listen to the recordings and believe me that the LeProtti recording of the ORIGINAL "Canadian Capers" is something you won't easily listen to elsewhere and it's worth posting it here.
Best RAGards
Luigi
Last edited by gigiranalli on Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: School of Syncopation - Jazz, Stride, Novelties & the Like.

Post by fhimpsl » Mon May 17, 2010 4:45 am

Dear Luigi,
Many thanks for your exceptional and thorough overview of the New Orleans ragtime and early jazz scene!! :D I like your use of audio excerpts to present the story and allow one to evaluate the styles of the different players. The Roy Carew material is especially valuable as a jazz document, since he was good friends with Morton and obviously did everything he could to promote Morton's music. This type of musical overview takes a lot of time to assemble but is truly invaluable as an educational tool. And you are so right, it is imperative whenever possible that ragtime pianists listen to the surviving recordings of the past greats; both for inspiration and education. Many Kudos!! :D :D :D
All best,
Frank

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Re: School of Syncopation - Jazz, Stride, Novelties & the Like.

Post by gigiranalli » Mon May 17, 2010 10:01 am

fhimpsl wrote:Dear Luigi,
Many thanks for your exceptional and thorough overview of the New Orleans ragtime and early jazz scene!! :D I like your use of audio excerpts to present the story and allow one to evaluate the styles of the different players. The Roy Carew material is especially valuable as a jazz document, since he was good friends with Morton and obviously did everything he could to promote Morton's music. This type of musical overview takes a lot of time to assemble but is truly invaluable as an educational tool. And you are so right, it is imperative whenever possible that ragtime pianists listen to the surviving recordings of the past greats; both for inspiration and education. Many Kudos!! :D :D :D
All best,
Frank
Dear Frank,
thank you very much for your kind words :D !!
I'm VERY interested about the thread about George W. Thomas you're preparing!
The piano rolls you've sent are great, rare and very interesting!!! I'm very curious about the work of this particular and very idiosyncratic ragtime and early boogie pianist (so exactly the kind of pianist that I prefer!)!
Best RAGards
Luigi

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