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Re: School of Syncopation - Jazz, Stride, Novelties & the Like.

Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 1:48 pm
by fhimpsl
Dear Luigi,
That "Recreation Rag No. 2" by Roy Carew is wonderful and such an important piece of ragtime history with its tie-ins to Jelly Roll Morton, Fate Marable, Clarence Williams, and "Tiger Rag""! :D Please do post "Recreation Rag No. 1" and any other Roy Carew material when you get a chance, because it's very important people see these after all the years in obscurity. I did not have the Roy Carew pieces you mentioned, but do have several of his manuscripts of JRM transcriptions. I will check my Morton folder for his transcriptions and also those by J.Lawrence Cook. I think the JLC transcriptions are all fully written out; in fact I don't remember seeing a lead sheet line scored by him! He was such a prolific transcriber I don't think it took him much time to do them! In any event thank you so much for all this history and the Roy Carew, who I know was Jelly Roll's friend in Washington, DC during his awful last years running the "Jungle Inn."
All best,
Frank :D :D :D

Re: School of Syncopation - Jazz, Stride, Novelties & the Like.

Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 2:17 pm
by gigiranalli
fhimpsl wrote:Please do post "Recreation Rag No. 1" and any other Roy Carew material when you get a chance, because it's very important people see these after all the years in obscurity.
Dear Frank,
I will certainly post "Recreation no.1" soon (and other things on Roy Carew), together with the Cook arrangement of "Naked Dance", because there's a certain story about these two pieces.
Thanks for looking for your JRM folder!! If you would find any of those Morton recreations of other pianists (like Buddy Carter, etc..) transcribed that would be great!
But I'm sorry to involve you with all my requests (and you have already posted SO MUCH for us!!), I hope that also other people will keep contributing material in the School of Syncopation discussion.
For today, I'd like to post something more about Texas ragtime, since it's so interesting that in that State pianists greatlyu developed the walking bass style, not in case sometimes called "Texas bass" during the ragtime era.
George W. Thomas from Houston, Texas, was a boogie woogie pioneer (he also recorded the first boogie woogie recording, his own "The Rocks" - I will write more about that particular recording!!), but he also composed some interesting ragtime as well!
I post here his interesting "That Bull Frog Rag", also including a strain with that boogie bass!
Then, as a curious piece, a Thomas arrangement for another ragtime composer, Viva Celeste Seals, entitled "The Crawfish Rag" (I post both the hand-written manuscript by George W. Thomas and the published version).
I don't know anything about Viva Celeste Seals, but this rag is certainly another example of how much the arranger influenced the style of a piece.
I hope that will be interesting.
More very soon...
Best
Luigi

Re: School of Syncopation - Jazz, Stride, Novelties & the Like.

Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 3:48 pm
by fhimpsl
Luigi mentioned a number of Jelly Roll Morton pieces that were unpublished and reside at the Library Of Congress. I will post photocopies of what I have of them....these are multi-generational photocopies with in some cases just awful quality....but used in conjunction with Morton's LOC recordings, they would help one to be able to duplicate Morton's ideas and present a performance of the piece. Some of these are Morton's original submissions to the Library for Copyright purposes; others are arrangements from the estate of Roy Carew; and yet others will I don't know where they originally came from! :o I hope that some of you will find these of interest....

Frank
Morton - Big Lip Blues - ms lead sheet.pdf
Morton - Buddy Carter - ms.pdf
Morton - Creepy Feeling- ms.pdf
Morton - Deep Creek - ms lead sheet.pdf

Re: School of Syncopation - Jazz, Stride, Novelties & the Like.

Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 3:54 pm
by fhimpsl
...more unpublished material by the great Ferdinand "Jelly Roll" Morton....

Frank
Morton - Don't You Leave Me Here - ms lead sheet.pdf
Morton - Honky Tonk Blues - ms.pdf
Morton - Honky Tonk Music - ms.pdf
Morton - I Hate A Man Like You- ms lead sheet.pdf

Re: School of Syncopation - Jazz, Stride, Novelties & the Like.

Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 4:01 pm
by fhimpsl
.....balance of unpublished material composed by "Jelly Roll" Morton....


Frank
Morton - Spanish Swat ms.pdf
Morton - Superior Rag-ms.pdf
Morton - Ted Lewis Blues ms lead sheet.pdf
Morton - Sweet Jazz Music -ms.pdf

Re: School of Syncopation - Jazz, Stride, Novelties & the Like.

Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 5:18 pm
by fhimpsl
Luigi also mentioned George W. Thomas and posted his manuscript of "That Bull Frog Rag." It's unfortunate that Thomas is hardly even remembered today except by hard-core jazz and ragtime enthusiasts, for his works easily earn him the title of "Father Of Boogie Woogie Piano." In 1919-20 Thomas ran his own music publishing company in New Orleans. His competitor in the same city was the publishing house of Clarence Williams and Armand J. Piron. Piron composed the jazz classic "I Wish I Could Shimmy Like My Sister Kate." Even though this was published in New Orleans in 1919, it did not become a major hit until several years later. Both Thomas and Williams moved "up the river" to Chicago around 1920-21 (along with names like Morton and Armstrong :shock: !) and established publishing businesses there. Thomas composed and published a great many songs, but despite his indefatigable drive and business savvy, he ultimately failed at the music business and died not too soon thereafter. Clarence Williams on the other hand became very successful (riding the coat-tails of "Sister Kate" royalties), and later moved to New York City to become the most successful Black music publisher in the business.
Back to Thomas....he marketed his music via sheet music and player piano rolls. Furthermore, the Wurlitzer Company took on many of Thomas' compositions and published them on nickelodeon rolls. Some of the tunes Wurlitzer issued on roll have never been found in sheet music form. One is a rag of almost mythical scarcity entitled "That Rat Proof Rag." I would like to post here midi files of several original piano rolls which add to the Thomas story and further support his claim to be originator of the boogie-woogie bass.

1. The Crawfish Rag - this is the piece which Luigi posted the manuscript of. It was issued on Wurlitzer Roll No. 20306, selection No. 10
2. The Bull Frog Rag - the piece Luigi posted as it was arranged and issued on Kimball roll No. 7203 (these rolls were issued for home player piano use; not like a multiple tune nickelodeon roll)
3. That Rat Proof Rag - this has never surfaced in sheet music form, but was issued on Wurlitzer Roll No. 20289, selection No. 7
4. That Rat Proof Rag - this is my arrangement of TRPR, assembled from the interlude sections of a number of George W. Thomas song rolls. I think it makes more sense this way! ;)

All best,
Frank
Seals - Crawfish Rag from Wurlitzer 20306-10.mid
Thomas - That Bull Frog Rag - Kimball Roll No. 7203.mid
Thomas - That Rat Proof Rag - from Wurlitzer 20289-7.mid
Thomas-Himpsl - That Rat Proof Rag - Arranged from piano roll interlude sections.mid

Re: School of Syncopation - Jazz, Stride, Novelties & the Like.

Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 7:01 pm
by gigiranalli
Dear Frank,
I'm simply shocked!!! :o :shock: :shock: :o
That's absolutely WONDERFUL!!!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Thanks so much for these treasures, and among these fantastic scores and piano rolls there are two things that I LOVE!!!!
One is "Buddy Carter Rag" of course!!! A big favorite of mine!!!!
The other is the two great piano rolls of "That Rat Proof Rag"!!! I was looking for this piece since time!!!
I have to write MUCH about this rag. The back cover of "Houston Blues" advertised this piece as: "That Rat Proof Rag": in class by itself. By Geo. W. Thomas.
I wondered for some years about this piece and nobody seemed to find it!!!
I always suspected that the rag strain that George W. Thomas himself included in his 1923 performance of "The Rocks" must have been something included in the mysterious "That Rat Proof Rag" - Benjamin Intartaglia maybe remembers my "novels" about this issue and can testify about this suspect of mine.
THANKS to your piano rolls now I can confirm that!!!
We don't have the sheet music (but I'll put the roll in my long "to do" list;-), BUT we have Thomas himself playing one part of it.
In the attachment I include the historical 1923 recording of George W. Thomas' "The Rocks" (later I will post the published sheet music), where he also plays a part of "That Rat Proof Rag".
I also extracted the part where the rag is played, so that people can compare it to your two great piano rolls!!!!
Very gratefully!!!
Luigi

Re: School of Syncopation - Jazz, Stride, Novelties & the Like.

Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 7:22 pm
by gigiranalli
Frank Himpsl has posted some verty rare and fantastic transcriptions and manuscripts of Jelly Roll Morton.
After all those great things, and the rare and exciting piano rolls of the George W. Thomas pieces, I'm rather confused at this moment and I can't write much.
For tonight I only post "Big Fat Ham" (aka "Big Foot Ham") transcribed and sligtly edited by J. Lawrence Cook. I've been asked for this score 100 times.
Later I will post more stuff by Roy Carew, then also other pieces by Morton including "The Naked Dance" and "Froggie Moore" (Frog-I-More Rag")..in a certain order, so to create a link between these pieces.
MOre very soon....
Thanks Frank!!! You're so generous and the things you're posting are so GREAT that I don't know what to say...
Luigi

Re: School of Syncopation - Jazz, Stride, Novelties & the Like.

Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 10:23 pm
by benjamin75
I always suspected that the rag strain that George W. Thomas himself included in his 1923 performance of "The Rocks" must have been something included in the mysterious "That Rat Proof Rag" - Benjamin Intartaglia maybe remembers my "novels" about this issue and can testify about this suspect of mine.
True! Hats off to you, gentlemen, for this flabbergasting discovery, and a very very big thanks for sharing your material/knowledge with us!!
friendly yours (in Ragtime, of course!)
Benjamin I.

Re: School of Syncopation - Jazz, Stride, Novelties & the Like.

Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 1:30 pm
by gigiranalli
fhimpsl wrote:In 1919-20 Thomas ran his own music publishing company in New Orleans. His competitor in the same city was the publishing house of Clarence Williams and Armand J. Piron. Piron composed the jazz classic "I Wish I Could Shimmy Like My Sister Kate." Even though this was published in New Orleans in 1919, it did not become a major hit until several years later. Both Thomas and Williams moved "up the river" to Chicago around 1920-21 (along with names like Morton and Armstrong :shock: !) and established publishing businesses there. Thomas composed and published a great many songs, but despite his indefatigable drive and business savvy, he ultimately failed at the music business and died not too soon thereafter. Clarence Williams on the other hand became very successful (riding the coat-tails of "Sister Kate" royalties), and later moved to New York City to become the most successful Black music publisher in the business.
Dear Frank,
first of all, thanks again for your great posts and the incredibly rare and precious attachments you've included!
I'm very interested in the two piano rolls of "That Rat Proof Rag", the one you arranged from interlude sections of several song rolls by George W. Thomas is the best of the two and also more similar to what Thomas played in the 1923 recording.
I wonder if the other piano roll version, less developed, may have been cut after a sheet music of the piece....maybe in the future a score of this rag will be discovered...
The part of your article that I quote here is very fascinating and offers a clear idea of the music background in N.O. then!
I have many things to post about Roy Carew and Morton, but first I'd like to send this interesting piece, a New Orleans rag, composed by Clarence Williams and Armand J. Piron, with Peter Bocage.
The title is "New Orleans Wiggle"
Enjoy :)
Luigi