School of Syncopation - Jazz, Stride, Novelties & the Like

[gigiranalli]

Hi Frank,
Wow!!! These piano rolls by George and Hersal Thomas are fantastic!!!
I especially enjoyed the obscure Thomas pieces like "Sweet baby Doll", "Don't Say A World", "I'm Going To The Jazz Ball", etc...
These are great pieces and very much in the peculiar style of this great pioneer!!!
The Clarence "Jelly" Johnson piano roll of "Muscle Shoals Blues" is a great surprise for me!! I've heard the Blythe or Johnson version of "Houston Blues" before and loved it and this other piano roll is another masterpiece!!
I'll make the J. Lawrence Cook fans here angry, as well as the stride piano fans, but I think that those Chicago south side pianists like Clarence Johnson or Jimmy Blythe had a better feeling for this kind of music, since they were such skilled pianists to add tricks and interest to them, but without betraying the original spirit of George W. Thomas genuine barrelhouse style.
Fine but more conventional pianists didn't really seem to know what to do with such a weird things and they unaivoidably produce clashing hybrids...
That's not the case of Clarence Johnson!!! It would be interesting to compare his (or Blythe's?) version of the "Houston Blues" with the one recorded by George Thomas himself (accompaining Tiny Franklin), the Johnson/Blythe version is a natural evolution of the Thomas recording!
Another fantastic piano roll is the one played by Hersal Thomas, his own "Hersal Blues": Hersal also made a piano solo recording of that (and of "Suitcase Blues"!) and the piano roll and the recording are very very similar!
"Caldonia Blues" is simply a masterpiece and there's not much to say about that, apart from listening to it! All three piano rolls of these piece are great, including the Cook version!
Also very interesting and enjoyable the hand-played rolls by George W. Thomas for National! Actually he sometimes sounds a bit more "advanced" and "modern" in these piano rolls ("Block Avenue Blues" and "Boot It, Boy", while "Harbour Blues" sounds closer to GWT's typcial things), in comparison with the recordings he made. Maybe he has been assisted by anybody with these rolls?
Thomas recorded "Boot It, Boy" with his band, Thomas' Devils. In the recording his piano accompaniment can be heard rather well.
In the following days I'd like to post some recordings of the Thomas brothers of that kind and, if Frank agrees, repost some of the piano roll versions he so generously shared with us, since some pieces are pratically identical in recording and roll versions, while others differs quite a bit.
Then there are things like the "Fish Tail Dance": the Kimball piano roll, certainly taken from an arrangement by George Thomas, is very similar to the bluesy version recorded on phonograph by Hersal (even the peculiar slurs in the verse are reproduced by Hersal), who was certainly quite influenced by his elder brother, although Hersal was quite more imaginative and modern than George.
Best
Luigi

[fhimpsl]

Dear Luigi,
I am so glad to hear that you are enjoying the George W. Thomas postings of the piano rolls. It is a lot of work to do, but posting in this manner ensures that the obscure material will always be available to students and researchers as yourself. By all means you can re-post any of the piano roll midi files to go along with an mp3 recording of the comparable 78rpm version. That is an excellent way to study and appreciate the music. There are quite a few more George W. Thomas rolls still to post, and as always I hope these will be enjoyed by yourself as well as the PianoPhilia family.
All best,
Frank

[fhimpsl]

Here is more music from George W. Thomas' middle period in Chicago (1922-25). Enjoy!

Rollographical Information - George W. Thomas Middle Period Part 2

"I Ain't No Sheik, Just Sweet Papa, That's All"

Kimball Roll No. 10385 issued 1923 as per roll label; unknown rag interlude features introduction and first strain
USM Roll No. 41397 unknown release date (probably 1924); played by Eubie Jones (a J.Lawrence Cook pseudonym)

"I've Got A Man Of My Own"

Kimball Roll No. 10338 issued 1923 as per roll label; unknown rag interlude features introduction and first strain
USM Roll No. 41470 unknown release date (probably 1924); played by Tom Blake (another J.Lawrence Cook pseudonym)


"Leaving Me Daddy, Is Hard To Do"

Kimball Roll No. 10516 issued 1924 as per roll label; unknown & very good rag interlude section


"Mammy's Little Brown Rose"

Kimball Roll No. 10449; issued 1923 as per roll label; unknown & extremely haunting minor key rag interlude section


Frank

Thomas - I Ain't No Sheik, Just Sweet Papa That's All - Kimball No. 10385.mid

Thomas - I Ain't No Sheik, Just Sweet Papa That's All - USM 41397 JLC.mid

Thomas - I've Got A Man Of My Own - Kimball 10338.mid

Thomas - I've Got A Man Of My Own - USM No. 41470.mid

Thomas - Leaving Me Daddy, Is Hard To Do - Kimball No. 10516.mid

Thomas - Mammy's Little Brown Rose - Kimball No. 10449.mid

[fhimpsl]

More music from George W. Thomas Chicago heydays (1922-25).... "Shorty George" was a nickname of Thomas' (wonder why )


Rollographical Information - George W. Thomas Middle Period Part 3

"Shorty George Blues"

Kimball Roll No. 10443 issue date 1923 according to roll label
USM Roll No. 41881 issue date unknown, probably late 1924; played by the composer George W. Thomas
Vocalstyle Roll No. 13068 issue date December 1924 from roll label; played by "Buck" Johnson (believed to be a house pianist pseudonym)
Automatic A-Roll No. 1223-6 issue date unknown; no QRS roll equivalent of this; artist sounds very much like Clarence Williams, based on his other QRS rolls
Columbia A-1828-7 issue date unknown; played by either James Blythe or Clarence Johnson

"Up The Country Blues"

USM Roll No. 41887; issue date unknown (likely 1924); played by J.Lawrence Cook under the Tom Blake pseudonym (although playing sounds more like George W. Thomas)
Vocalstyle Roll No. 12839; issue date unknown (likely 1924); played by Clarence M. Jones...one of the best piano roll blues I've heard

Frank

Thomas - Shorty George Blues - Kimball No. 10443.mid

Thomas - Shorty George Blues - USM No. 41887 pld by composer.mid

Thomas - Shorty George Blues - Vocalstyle No. 13068.mid

Thomas - Shorty George Blues - Automatic A-1223-6.mid

Thomas - Shorty George Blues - Columbia A-1828-7.mid

Thomas - Up The Country Blues - USM 41887.mid

Thomas - Up The Country Blues - Vocalstyle12839 pld by Clarence Jones.mid

[gigiranalli]

Dear Frank,
thank you SO MUCH for these many great piano rolls of George W. Thomas' fantastic music!!!
Again there are such rare and enjoyavle numbers!!!
About "Ain't No Sheik" (Kimball), the rag featured in there is "The Crawfish Rag" and in "I Got A Man Of My Own" (Kimball) there's "That Rat Proof Rag" again!
The use of strains from other rags in the Thoams piano rolls and recordings is interesting! It's so frequent that it seems like a promotional strategy, so that when a new tune is issued it's already "in the ear" of the public.
Of course it's clear you knew which were those ragtime intrludes very well but wanted to see if anybody else would have recognized them
I also liked very much these latest Cook piano rolls. It seems like he stayed closer to the spirit of the music in these titles and they're very nice!
Of course the Clarence Johnson rolls stand out!! BTW I noticed a little mistake, since the Shorty George Blues USM No. 41887 piano roll, played by Thomas, is actually "Up The Country Blues" ...
I also feel that the "Up The Country Blues" played by Cook is very nice and also very reminiscent of Thomas' style: he also uses some walking bass effect in the way used by Thomas. I really like that roll!
The Automatic version of "Shorty George" is very enjoyable! It's interesting that you noticed similarities with Clarence Williams!
I will post the recordings of Shorty George and I Got A Man Of My Own played by George W. Thomas. In these two cases the Kimball piano rolls are not very reminiscent of Thomas playing I think, unlike other of those fascinating piano rolls!
Thanks for everything! These rare pieces are pure gold!!!

Luigi

[fhimpsl]

Dear Luigi,
I am glad you are enjoying the George W. Thomas material!! You are right that I had one of the piano roll serial numbers incorrect; the correct information follows

USM 41881 "Shorty George Blues"
USM 41887 "Up The Country Blues"

Also you know your ragtime interludes very well indeed....I thought Thomas' use of Seals' "Crawfish Rag" was an especially nice find. There is still more GWT roll material to post, but I look very forward to your postings at any time. Your comparisons of the 78rpm mp3 files vs. the piano rolls is a very good way to study and understand the music.

All best,
Frank

[gigiranalli]

There is still more GWT roll material to post, but I look very forward to your postings at any time. Your comparisons of the 78rpm mp3 files vs. the piano rolls is a very good way to study and understand the music.

Dear Frank,
in the weekend I will prepare the recordings of Hersal and George and also the sheet music of "Shorty George Blues", "The Rocks", "The Fives" and "Houston Blues"(two arrangements) to post.
Apart from the George W. Thomas piano solo of "The Rocks" (introducing "That Rat Proof Rag") that I already posted, his other recordings are with two of his bands and a bunch of them are piano accompaniments with singer Tiny Franklin (in these Thomas' piano is very well heardable - fortunately - and even clearer than Franklin's voice).
I'll post the things in the weekend and I hope they'll be interesting!

I thought Thomas' use of Seals' "Crawfish Rag" was an especially nice find.

Yes! That's very interesting! I'm going to "watch" it with a midi notation program to see if that is arranged like in the sheet music, since I'm not sure. I see that the strains of "That Rat Proof Rag" included as interludes that you assembled together are much better arranged and certainly closer to Thomas' playing (of the first strain we're sure, since it's like the recording!) than the other "complete" piano roll, which is also great anyway! I'm guessing that a similar things happened with the "Crawfish Rag".
I put your arrangement of "That Rat Proof Rag" from the interludes among the pieces I must transcribe, in the same list with "Interference Rag" and another couple of great pieces. If I'll be able, I would try to guess the notes added in the orchestration to edit them out and have a playable score...I'll post the experiment...
I wanted to say something on the fantastic piano roll of "Feed That Mule" that you posted the other day. I didn't write anything in particular about that piece, in spite of the fact it's one of the rolls I like the best among this "George W. Thomas parade" you're posting, because there was one strain in it (not the one from Rat Proof) that sounded very familiar to me but couldn't say what it was. I spent almost one day to try to remember what strain was that...
Then I finally remembered it
Maybe I'm exaggerating, but I think that strain is the same thing played by Jimmy Blythe in his fantastic "Fast Stuff Blues" piano roll. Yes, very different style and arrangement, but to me it sounds like the same thing.
I've been often criticized, among the many things (and some of those are even true ) , for finding similarities everywhere.
I don't think that's the case now but of course I welcome denials and protests.
Here I'm posting a MP3 that starts with that great Feed That Mule piano roll and then there's the part in Fast Stuff Blues by Blythe, then again Feed That Mule.
What do you honestly thing? Am I wrong?
It's curious that George Thomas had recorded a piece in 1929 with a guitarist and a singer and entitled "Fast Stuff Blues", but that's not that "Fast Stuff Blues" by Jimmy Blythe, but just a typical country blues (and not that appealing).
Best RAGards
Luigi

[fhimpsl]

Dear Luigi,
Thanks for your comments and observations, which are always quite insightful! I look forward to your Thomas postings in the next few days; particularly the comparisons of roll recording vs. 78rpm on these. I haven't listened to the records in years and I will enjoy your clean mp3 files very much! Same thing with the scores; I have them but they are buried and hard to get to right now.
Thomas was a real "original" in the history of both ragtime and jazz, and it is good that we are archiving his works as much as possible. I will try and finish the Thomas piano roll postings tomorrow. Also, I am happy to hear you would like to transcribe my arrrangement of "That Rat Proof Rag." It's about time somebody in the course of time wrote that piece out!!! On "Feed That Mule" I hear the similarities to "Fast Stuff Blues," but to me the latter tune always seemed like a South Side Chicago jazzed-up version of "Black And White Rag!" You know the story on "Nicaragua Blues," where Jimmy Blythe played "My Blue Heaven" in minor key as the first strain!! These fellows were so talented....!

All best,
Frank

[gigiranalli]

On "Feed That Mule" I hear the similarities to "Fast Stuff Blues," but to me the latter tune always seemed like a South Side Chicago jazzed-up version of "Black And White Rag!"

Dear Frank,
yes, I see the similarity with "Black And White Rag" as well and this music re-working is fascinating!

You know the story on "Nicaragua Blues," where Jimmy Blythe played "My Blue Heaven" in minor key as the first strain!! These fellows were so talented....!

I like "Nicaragua Blues" very much and Blythe made a great use of the theme of "My Blue Heaven"! I also like his recording of "Bull Fiddle Rag" where he re-used the second strain in "Nicaragua Blues"!
Blythe certainly recycled music in a very effective way! Have you noticed that the intro in "Jimmy's Blues" is taken from the second strain of James P. Johnson's "Toddlin'"?
A weird thing about his piano rolls is that several of them seem to have a wrong title...I wonder how this happened...
Best
Luigi

[fhimpsl]

Dear Luigi,
There are a number of examples where the titles on the Capitol A-rolls do not line up with the 78rpm recordings. "Five O'Clock Stomp" is one example, where the State Street Ramblers recording is a completely different tune than the A-roll. Another is the wonderful "It's Hot- Leave It Alone. The A-roll version is completely different from the Electrobeam recorded by Blythe under the same title. I think it was just carelessness on the part of the roll (or record) companies!!

And now back to George W. Thomas:

Rollography George W. Thomas Middle Period Part 4

"Underworld Blues"

Kimball Roll No. 10538 issued 1924 as per roll label
USM Roll No. 42240 issued ca. 1924; pianist is co-composer Hersal Thomas; his only piano roll issued for the home player market
QRS Roll No. 2799 issued September 1924 as per roll label; played by J.Lawrence Cook under the Sid Laney pseudonym
Columbia Roll No. 1084 unknown issue date; played by James Blythe


"Washwoman Blues"

USM Roll No. 42563 issued ca. 1925; played by composer George W. Thomas
QRS Roll No. 2977 Issued September 1925 as per roll label; played by J.Lawrence Cook as "Sid Laney"


Frank

Thomas - Underworld Blues - Kimball 10538.mid

Thomas - Underworld Blues - Kimball 10538.mid

Thomas - Underworld Blues - QRS 2799.mid

Thomas - Underworld Blues - Columbia pld by James Blythe.mid

Thomas - Washwoman Blues - USM 42563 pld by George W. Thomas.mid

Thomas - Washwoman Blues - QRS 2799.mid

Thomas - Underworld Blues - USM 42240 pld by Hersal Thomas.mid